Doping genetico

Per discutere, analizzare, approfondire tutto quello che riguarda il tema più dibattuto del ciclismo
Avatar utente
Maìno della Spinetta
Messaggi: 10468
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 15:53

Doping genetico

Messaggio da leggere da Maìno della Spinetta »

Lo dice il titolo stesso: titoli, spunti, e quant'altro si possa sapere su queste pratiche di difficile individuazione.


i medici riuniti in Scozia chiedono a gran voce: fateci lavorare sull'uomo,
perché Frankes... scusate, perché l'atleta perfetto è alla nostra portata.

http://blog.scottishdocinstitute.com/st ... nst_doping


Doping finally a thing of the past
Posted by Ben Kempas on April 01, 2012 · Flag

"We can grow a professional cyclist from stem cells," claim scientists – backed up by filmmakers.

Scientists in Edinburgh today announced that they would theoretically be able to grow professional athletes from induced pluripotent stem cells (iPS) in the lab. They are now urging the Scottish Government to grant them permission to go ahead with this experiment, the first of its kind in the world (sicuri sicuri sicuri, MdS).

"Look at the controversy around doping over the last decade," said Lirpa O'Tsrif, a university researcher. "If we grew our professional sportsmen and women from the best DNA available, there simply wouldn't be a need for them to use performance-enhancing drugs." (logico vero? Non fa una grinza... la ragione è proprio questa...)

Speaking at the Scottish Documentary Institute today, the scientists were supported by filmmaker Finlay Pretsell who is currently developing a film about British cyclist David Millar. Millar, according to Pretsell "one of the most compelling athletes Great Britain has ever produced", was the centre of a major doping scandal and is still fighting for a comeback. Pretsell said: "It would be incredible if athletes didn't have to go through such ordeals."

Pretsell was joined by fellow filmmaker Dr Amy Hardie, who made the documentary Stem Cell Revolutions in close collaboration with scientists. "This is so wonderful," Dr Hardie said. "When we were making our film, I learned about the discovery of induced pluripotent stem cells. It is so fantastic that stem cells for sports can be made without the use of human embryos." Referring to her current work at Strathcarron Hospice, Dr Hardie mentioned that many patients there had heard about stem cell treatments, two of them being part of clinical trials. "But wait till they hear about the exciting new possibilities in the field of sports!"
(Lui sì che è una persona morale!!! Embrioni salvi, e sportivi felici, meglio di così!?!?)

Speaking for the Scottish Government and announcing the upcoming launch of Scottish Cells International, Elba Veilebnu added: "Stem cells for sports could soon become the number one export from Scotland. Whisky, just like doping, will become a thing of the past."

Maja Borg, an expert on futurists, pointed out that this is not just about designing the ideal cyclist. People should also think about the future of the bicycle: "As part of my new film Future My Love, I'm looking at 3D printing technology. We could soon print an entire bicycle with this machine."


“Our interest’s on the dangerous edge of things.
The honest thief, the tender murderer, the superstitious atheist”.
Avatar utente
Maìno della Spinetta
Messaggi: 10468
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 15:53

Re: Doping genetico

Messaggio da leggere da Maìno della Spinetta »

durante le olimpiadi negli USA si chiedevano:


is there stem cell doping in the Olympics?
Posted on August 1, 2012

Has there been stem cell doping in the Olympics?

Readers of this blog have been asking me this question more than any other in the last week.

Part of the impetus for this question is the growing number of professional athletes who more generally have received dubious stem cell treatments in foreign countries, perhaps treatments that might even be technically illegal in the U.S.

Stem cell “sports medicine” is a hot field, at least for people trying to salvage careers or become stars and the doctors trying to make money off of them.

A number of players in the NFL and in MLB have been outed in the press as having gotten non-FDA approved stem cell treatments and almost certainly countless others have gotten the same or similar treatments without anyone knowing about it.

For background on this fascinating area, here are my two posts: Sports Medicine and Sports Medicine 2.0.

As the media is abuzz over the stellar performance of 16-year-old swimmer Ye Shiwen of China with some alleging doping, questions related to “cell doping” have started becoming more common.

So have Olympic athletes received dubious stem cell treatments, what some readers of this blog have gone so far as to call “doping”, to secretly make them more likely to win gold?

It’s a complex question with no black or white answer.

Why?

Because to my knowledge there is, as of yet, no explicit publicly pronounced prohibition for Olympic athletes from getting stem cell treatments of any kind as long as there are no growth factors involved.

Thus, perhaps there can’t really be “doping” in the Olympics using stem cells because the International Olympic Committee (IOC) doesn’t ban it.

Surprised?

But perhaps there is an IOC ban on stem cell doping that as yet has not been publicly announced.

A key question is when would a stem cell treatment, which seems acceptable to me for an Olympic athlete, cross the line to become doping?

Let’s look at a recent case.

Malaysia’s Lee Chong Wei, an Olympic Badminton athlete, has reportedly received a stem cell treatment to try to get ready for the 2012 Olympics.

After an injury in May, the article on Lee reads that he is back on track at least in part thanks to stem cells:

However stem cell treatment, plus 13 hours’ rehab each day, and a flinty attitude have bolstered him physically and mentally, enabling him to confound those who claimed he wouldn’t make it.

To me this doesn’t seem like doping even though the details of his treatment are unknown.

What would be doping?

I would define it as something that gives an athlete an unfair advantage over others.

How would it work?

An alleged stem cell doping ring possibly linked to the 2008 Beijing Olympics is illustrative. In a piece on the expose documentary, a “doctor” is quoted about the proposed $24,000 sports medicine treatment:

“Yes. We have no experience with athletes here, but the treatment is safe and we can help you,” the doctor is heard to say. “It strengthens lung function and stem cells go into the bloodstream and reach the organs. It takes two weeks. I recommend four intravenous injections … 40 million stem cells or double that, the more the better. We also use human growth hormones, but you have to be careful because they are on the doping list.”

This expensive treatment, in my opinion, would not help athletes.

In 2008, Sports Illustrated ran a piece on stem cell doping, also related to the Beijing Olympics. Amongst others they quoted Johnny Huard, director of the stem cell research center at the Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh at UPMC and professor in the Department of Orthopedic Surgery at the University of Pittsburgh.

Huard was contacted by the U.S. ­Anti-­Doping Agency (USADA) more than two years ago to help develop tests to detect stem cell doping from both autologous and donor cells. If athletes were to use cells from a donor, detection would be possible, according to Itescu. “You can detect other people’s DNA in your bloodstream with routine screening.” But the process would be expensive, and testing of an athlete’s DNA is a long way off for both practical and ethical reasons. The process also ­wouldn’t work if athletes used their own cells. “We have no way of detecting that you have injected a cell from you to you,” says Huard.

Getting back to our central question–is there stem cell doping at the 2012 Olympics?– I think the answer is likely “yes”, but only on a very small scale. However, given the secrecy of any kind of doping it is difficult to know of the potential scale of the problem.

The stakes are high enough that I do believe that some athletes, coaches, and even countries are willing to do almost anything to win and as such it has happened during and before these Olympics.

What is more important and exciting, is the positive potential of stem cell treatments (not doping!) to help not only athletes, but also everyday people lead healthier lives in the future after the technology is fully tested. But we can’t skip the research to ensure safety and efficacy. ANCHE QUA STUPENDAMENTE SI DICE, MA NON è DOPING, CHISSà QUANTE PERSONE SI POTRANNO AIUTARE, LE STAMINALI SON LECITE E FIGHE!!!

Chissà perché quando leggo certe cose rivedo un atleta cinese ai blocchi di partenza dei 110 ostacoli piegarsi due volte in 4 anni ai blocchi di partenza per problemi a un tendine....


“Our interest’s on the dangerous edge of things.
The honest thief, the tender murderer, the superstitious atheist”.
Avatar utente
Maìno della Spinetta
Messaggi: 10468
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 15:53

Scanagatta 2008

Messaggio da leggere da Maìno della Spinetta »

http://www.ubitennis.com/2008/07/23/106 ... ssi..shtml


Spunta il doping genetico. In un ospedale cinese si spacciano le staminali

Ivo Romano, la stampa del 23-07-08

Un giornalista in incognito, i canali giusti dove scavare, la più scabrosa delle richieste: i prodromi dell' inchiesta televisiva. Un'operazione da manuale, condotta dai tedeschi di Ard in collaborazione con il quotidiano inglese Times, che se non ha scoperchiato un fetido pentolone ha quanto meno fatto scattare il sinistro sibilo della sirena d'allarme. Le Olimpiadi sono alle porte, la Cìna è sotto la luce dei riflettori.- C'è sport e sport. Quello pulito e quello viziato. Il documento ricavato dalla tv tedesca penetra nel lato più oscuro, evidenziando i bui meandri del doping di ultima generazione, che in Cina sembra a portata di mano, peraltro a costi accessibili, perfino la terapia genetica, ultimo ritrovato nella corsa infinita all'alterazione delle prestazioni sportive, basato sull'impiego di cellule staminali. Una clinica cinese, un dottore contattabile da chiunque, un giornalista che si mette sulle sue tracce e si presenta come allenatore di un nuotatore americano. E il gioco è fatto. Il medico, ripreso dalle telecamere, ha dichiarato di essere in grado di somministrare 31 trattamento: circa 16 mila euro la somma richiesta per due settimane. Poi, l'ammissione di non aver esperienza con atleti, ma di essere certo della utilità della terapia genetica: «Le cellule staminali rafforzano le funzioni polmonari, circolano nel sangue e raggiungono gli altri organi». Quindi, le ulteriori raccomandazioni: «Ci vogliono circa due settimane. Servirebbero quattro iniezioni per endovena, sono quaranta milioni di cellule staminali; ma il doppio sarebbe meglio. Usiamo anche ormoni della crescita, ma c'è da stare attenti perché rientrano nella lista delle sostanze proibite». L'industria del doping viaggia a velocità sostenuta, ma che in Cina si fosse arrivati a questi livelli resta sbalorditivo. «Mai avrei immaginato prove così schiaccianti», ha dichiarato Mario Thevies, presidente del centro di Colonia per la prevenzione, del doping. Mentre David Howman, direttore generale della Wada, s'è detto sconcertato: «Questo va molto al di là dei miei peggiori timori». Terapia genetica,; ma non solo. Il documento-choc ha portato alla luce un fiorente mercato sotterraneo di sostanze dopanti. Per quel che è emerso, sembra che in Cina molte case farmaceutiche siano pronte a vendere steroidi che non hanno passato completi test clinici, a cominciare dall'Epo, a prezzi infinitamente più bassi di quel che accade in occidente. no steroide, è sufficiente a evidenziare la gravita della situazione: 100 grammi di sostanza venduta a 160 euro quando in Europa ce ne vorrebbero, più di 6000. Una macroscopica sproporzione, come nel caso di un altro steroide, conosciuto come estra-dien-dione, venduto a 1500 yuan (circa 120 euro) per 100 grammi quando in Europa la stessa quantità può essere acquistata per poco meno di 6000 euro. Senza dimenticare il resto. I giornalisti hanno scoperto che Xu Huigin, allenatrice di nuoto sospesa due volte perché sue allieve erano risultate positive per steroidi, è ancora membro dello staff della nazionale cinese. Huang Xiaomin, medaglia d'argento nel nuoto a Seul, ora allenatrice in Corea del Sud, ha ammesso che molti dei suoi compagni di allora avevano fatto uso di steroidi fin da adolescenti. Un duro colpo per la Cina, alla vigilia delle Olimpiadi. L'importante è vincere. Anche a costo di barare.


“Our interest’s on the dangerous edge of things.
The honest thief, the tender murderer, the superstitious atheist”.
Avatar utente
Maìno della Spinetta
Messaggi: 10468
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 15:53

Bolt

Messaggio da leggere da Maìno della Spinetta »

Di Bolt già se ne discusse in questo forum, con toni polemici,
ma con la pulce nell'orecchio della sua sponsorizzazione per la Humbolt, segnalatami da un amico :)
e forte delle ricerche mattutine in tema di cellule staminali,

ho digitato qualche parolina in google, e ho trovato un articolo interessante.
Pare che già a 16 anni U Bolt avesse trovato il suo Testarossa.


Usain Bolt’s doctor giving athletes unproven stem cell treatments?
Posted on August 9, 2012

Could Usain Bolt’s doctor be treating athletes with unproven stem cell treatments?
The idea is not so far-fetched, I was surprised to learn.
Bolt is an amazing sprinter. He’s a joy to watch.
During the 2012 Olympics I’ve watched a few of his races and he has had almost super-human speed.

The winner of multiple gold medals, Bolt says he wants to solidify his status as a legend. However, as remarkable as Bolt is, he is human and has had injuries. He has lost races. He’s also getting up there in years.

More recently he has also talked about how thankful he is for his “team” that supports him as a sprinter.
Today Bolt singled out for special thanks a German doctor named Dr. Hans Müller-Wohlfahrt, who also goes by the moniker “Healing Hans”.

Bolt called the doctor “the best doctor in the world, a great, great man.” Bolt reportedly first met the doctor when he was only 16 years old. Bolt’s coach brought Bolt all the way to Müller-Wohlfahrt’s flagship clinic in Germany at that very young age, which seems stunning to me.

Healing Hans (read more about him here on Wikipedia), whom I’ll just call HH here forth, is a controversial physician, but athletes including Bolt flock to him for treatments.

HH, who has clinics around the world in addition to the facility in Munich, Germany, injects patients with various unusual solutions to treat injuries. He claims to have done more than a million such injections.

For somewhat of a puff piece on HH see the YouTube video below
è datato: il nome di quel dottore è già in giro da parecchio,


HH is described as controversial (for example, see this ESPN article) at least in part because of what he is injecting into patients and the sometimes miraculous results he seems to get in athletes, who love the guy.

In the ESPN article, several specific athletes who are patients of HH are discussed and interviewed. For one patient, Meseret Defar of Ethiopia, HH reportedly said to her when giving her 8 different injections into her knee (emphasis mine):

“This is a relief for muscle and then the patella is not under stress so much and can regenerate.”

Note the key word in there “regenerate”.

Nowadays when doctors or clinics use that word they usually are referring to stem cell treatments. This raises the intriguing, perhaps potentially explosive question of whether any of HH’s injections include stem cells?

It’s unclear because just what goes into each syringe that HH uses to inject patients remains somewhat mysterious.

However, what HH is reported to have injected into patients is quite a remarkable array of substances including honey, calves’ blood, goat’s blood, and something called “Hyalart” extracted from the crest of cockerels. One ingredient in Hyalart is the chemical hyaluronic acid.

Reportedly HH’s most trusted medicine is Actovegin (isolated from goat’s blood), a substance ESPN says is illegal in America. Further, a Canadian doctor was charged a few years ago for giving athletes performance-enhancing drugs including Actovegin.

Could HH also be injecting Bolt or other athletes with stem cells?

It’s hard to know, but it is possible.

Another ESPN piece, a commentary, pulls no punches:

Healing Hans, as Dr. Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfahrt is affectionately known, ranks as either the greatest healer since Hippocrates or is a quack with a hyperactive syringe, depending on whom you believe.

One British newspaper columnist, David Prentice (I don’t believe this is the same David Prentice known as a stem cell opponent here in the US), went so far as to call soccer (“football” in most of the world) stars treated by HH “suckers” in a piece in 2010.

Interestingly, in the same article, the writer talks about the soccer players storing stem cells from their newborn babies for potential future use themselves for sports injuries. He quoted one anonymous player in the following segment:

One player – unsurprisingly anonymous – explained: “We decided to store our new baby’s stem cells for possible future therapeutic reasons… as a footballer, if you’re prone to injury it can mean the end of your career, so having your stem cells – a repair kit if you like – on hand makes sense.”

I recently published a piece asking if there was stem cell doping in the Olympics. I think it is likely, but I remarked that I thought the problem was minor. Now I’m not so sure…

In another piece by Liz Porter at theage.com, it is reported that HH charges up to $20,000 per treatment.

Porter’s article in part focuses on a soccer team’s exercise physiologist, John Quinn, who is apparently a strong advocate of HH’s treatments. The article reports:

“As long as it is legal and isn’t going to hurt the player, clubs will try anything,” says Quinn.

Does that anything include stem cells?

Again, it is unclear, but the Porter article goes on to extensively discuss how soccer (European football) clubs are increasingly excited about their stars getting stem cell treatments.

In the Olympics, where the stakes are just as high or higher, I also believe that some athletes, coaches, and national team officials are likely willing to try anything. I imagine many of the athlete’s injected by HH have no idea what’s in the syringes he uses.

HH reportedly has a tight relationship with the Steadman Clinic here in the U.S. in Vail, Colorado and the related Steadman Philippon Research Institute, which apparently give stem cell treatments and reportedly hosted a meeting in Vail, Colorado that in part discussed regenerative treatments and stem cells.

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with stem cell treatments or regenerative medicine. In fact I’m a big fan of the idea.

HH may be an amazing doctor who gets miraculous results, but I’m not so sure what is in his syringes. Also, as a biomedical scientist I don’t believe in miracles.

Further, if athletes including star players and Olympic athletes are getting such stem cell treatments, I think the public and the IOC wants to know about it. Governing bodies of other sports may also want to have stem cells on their radar.

Has Bolt himself received a stem cell treatment or is receiving such treatments even during the Olympics? I have no idea and I believe in “innocent until proven guilty”, but in this crazy mixed up world of sports stars and the Olympics, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

Another interesting question: Is HH in London for the Olympics?

More broadly, the issue of stem cell sports medicine (see key background here) is exploding and is likely to be a dominant topic in coming years as well as a major issue at the 2016 Olympics in Rio.


“Our interest’s on the dangerous edge of things.
The honest thief, the tender murderer, the superstitious atheist”.
Avatar utente
Maìno della Spinetta
Messaggi: 10468
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 15:53

Kobe Bryan

Messaggio da leggere da Maìno della Spinetta »

L'articolo comincia chiedendosi legittimament: perché Kobe gioca meglio, ed è atleticamente più in fomra, di 5 anni fa?

y nearly every metric, Kobe Bryant is having his best season in years. Not only is he leading the league in scoring, but he's also performing above his career average in points per game and rebounds. (As always, Kobe is shooting too much: plus ça change.) Even his minutes are up: Kobe is playing nearly five minutes more per game than last season.

This is not the usual curve of an NBA career. As the economist David Berri has demonstrated, most NBA players exhibit an inverted U curve of productivity, showing a steep ascent as they first learn to play in the NBA. Their peak arrives shortly thereafter, usually around age 24 or 25, and is followed by a steady plateau until age 27. It's at this point that the decline begins: The grind of the season starts to dismantle the body. Joints give out, muscles lose their fast twitch fibers, tendons are torn. It's the usual tragedy of time, only accelerated by the intensity of professional basketball. By the age of 30, their glory days are probably long gone.

And yet, the aging Kobe — he will turn 34 this summer1 — seems to have resisted this dismal downward arc. In particular, Kobe's arthritic right knee seems to have healed itself, allowing him to return to more aggressive form. As Mike Brown, the Lakers coach, noted in December: "He's done some things in practice that have kind of wowed you as far as taking the ball to the basket strong and finishing with dunks in traffic." Kobe concurs: "I feel a lot stronger and a lot quicker."
...





Il resto si legge in http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/779 ... -treatment,

e si evoca un medico tedesco anche lì


“Our interest’s on the dangerous edge of things.
The honest thief, the tender murderer, the superstitious atheist”.
meriadoc
Messaggi: 4838
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 21:55

Re: Doping genetico

Messaggio da leggere da meriadoc »

no, kobe ha avuto una della sue più inefficienti stagioni di sempre, ha giocato più minuti per scelta di mike brown, ha tirato con percentuali peggiori, il suo PER (per efficiency rating, che è la metrica di john hollinger più usata per riassumere il rendimento di un giocatore) è peggiorato


Kruijswijk... il resto è noia

"Siamo in gennaio, siamo in Australia ma per me questo e' il successore di Froome nell'albo d'oro della grand boucle.."
21/01/2017 barrylyndon su Porte
Huck Finn
Messaggi: 620
Iscritto il: martedì 27 marzo 2012, 17:50
Località: Udine

Re: Doping genetico

Messaggio da leggere da Huck Finn »

Ciao. Per dare brevemente un piccolo contributo alla discussione, inizio con la definizione di doping genetico, secondo la WADA

'The non-therapeutic use of cells, genes, genetic elements, or the modulation of gene expression, having the capacity to enhance athletic performance[...]'

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/docu ... ist_En.pdf


Avatar utente
pacho
Messaggi: 2859
Iscritto il: giovedì 8 settembre 2011, 19:29

Re: Doping genetico

Messaggio da leggere da pacho »

Riprendo questo articolo che avevo postato qualche tempo fa (che all'epoca non si era cagato nessuno :D ), ripreso della rivista Nature riguardante il doping genetico.
Vale la pena darci un occhio.

Performance enhancement: Superhuman athletes
Enhancements such as doping are illegal in sport — but if all restrictions were lifted, science could push human performance to new extremes.

http://www.nature.com/news/performance- ... es-1.11029


Utenti ignorati: Strong, Salvatore77, beppesaronni
Avatar utente
Maìno della Spinetta
Messaggi: 10468
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 15:53

Re: Doping genetico

Messaggio da leggere da Maìno della Spinetta »

Huck Finn ha scritto:Ciao. Per dare brevemente un piccolo contributo alla discussione, inizio con la definizione di doping genetico, secondo la WADA

'The non-therapeutic use of cells, genes, genetic elements, or the modulation of gene expression, having the capacity to enhance athletic performance[...]'

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/docu ... ist_En.pdf
Grazie HFinn, ottimo.
La Def c'è. ma sappiamo della messa a punto di test per applicarla?
Vi sono tecniche che possano accertarlo?
E, se il test c'è, per eluderlo basterebbe un semplice certificato in cui si dichiari che in passato ci si è avvalsi di tale pratica a scopo terapeutico per evitare sospetti?


“Our interest’s on the dangerous edge of things.
The honest thief, the tender murderer, the superstitious atheist”.
Avatar utente
Maìno della Spinetta
Messaggi: 10468
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 15:53

Re: Doping genetico

Messaggio da leggere da Maìno della Spinetta »

A quanto pare la WADA queste cose non le cerca.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dr ... e_Olympics


PS Ricordo un qualcosa (articolo?) in cui qualcuno diceva che era più pratico l'uso di ormoni sintetici come l'EPO invece del doping genetico. Qualcuno si ricorda dove se ne parlava?


“Our interest’s on the dangerous edge of things.
The honest thief, the tender murderer, the superstitious atheist”.
Avatar utente
Maìno della Spinetta
Messaggi: 10468
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 15:53

Re: Doping genetico

Messaggio da leggere da Maìno della Spinetta »

Da un pezzo del 2011:
I suspect the damaged muscle cells were releasing myogenic factors involved in the activation process which set them to work. In the undamaged muscles this signalling was obviously not present. I hope further research is conducted investigating the effect of non-injured muscle treatment followed by mechanical loading or exercise in the mice. This is where I think there is potential for doping. In most physical sports retirement usually comes no later than the athlete hits forty years of age, maybe sooner. In some freak Hall-of-Famer cases they go beyond this, but for the majority this is about right. In the future we may see sports athletes with huge masses of muscle and incredible strength competing well into their twilight years.

le staminali non usate nel midollo osseo o nel sangue, ma sui muscoli, reagiscono meglio se il muscolo di partenza è messo male, e quindi su persone di una certa età sportiva, perché sui muscoli sani non reagisconx tanto.

Qua il pezzo intero,
http://www.getds.com/20110608255/blog/s ... -potential


“Our interest’s on the dangerous edge of things.
The honest thief, the tender murderer, the superstitious atheist”.
Avatar utente
Maìno della Spinetta
Messaggi: 10468
Iscritto il: giovedì 9 dicembre 2010, 15:53

Re: Doping genetico

Messaggio da leggere da Maìno della Spinetta »

e infine un pezzo del 2008 sullo stato dell'arte nel doping genetico.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439520/
Cosa sia accaduto da allora, nun zò


“Our interest’s on the dangerous edge of things.
The honest thief, the tender murderer, the superstitious atheist”.
Rispondi